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Author Topic: Re: A Change in Direction?  (Read 911 times)

Michael

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Re: A Change in Direction?
« on: January 30, 2017, 08:39:51 PM »
I've been reading the rules for Beyond the Gates of Antares, which is essentially Bolt Action in space. I have been reluctant to join the Bolt Action band wagon, because the reviews I read likened it to 40k in a WW2 setting. For some reason I didn't feel as much reluctance to try it as a scifi game, which is why I asked Chris to loan me the rules for BtGoA. What I have discovered is that I don't think the rules work very well for scifi - but they do seem very appropriate for WW2!

So, I think I'm going to delve into Bolt Action. Is anyone else willing to join in?
"A leader leads by example, not by force."

winterwolf8601

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Re: Re: A Change in Direction?
« Reply #1 on: January 30, 2017, 10:01:21 PM »
Hmmm... Id be curious to see the 2nd edition bolt action rules. I didn't like what i read for the 1st edition.

winterwolf8601

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Re: Re: A Change in Direction?
« Reply #2 on: January 31, 2017, 01:07:40 AM »
Been reading the rules, I'm done with Bolt Action.

bigchris

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Re: Re: A Change in Direction?
« Reply #3 on: January 31, 2017, 09:19:15 AM »
While I haven't read the second edition rules yet, I have ad a passing interest in Bolt Action.  So I will be giving it a go at some point this year.  I'm curious though why you didn't like it Phil?
Look! We're not worried about the German army, we've got enough troubles of our own. To the right General Patton, to the left the British Army, to the rear our own goddamn artillery, and besides all that it's raining.

winterwolf8601

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Re: Re: A Change in Direction?
« Reply #4 on: January 31, 2017, 04:59:40 PM »
lol oops. I meant, I'm "Down with" not done with. The 2nd ed. seems better.

Michael

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Re: Re: A Change in Direction?
« Reply #5 on: January 31, 2017, 08:10:36 PM »
Very good, the next time I'm in the store I will buy the rule book. I'll probably begin with the British starter set - a couple of platoons of infantry and a Cromwell. That seems like a good, solid base to work with.
"A leader leads by example, not by force."

winterwolf8601

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Re: Re: A Change in Direction?
« Reply #6 on: February 01, 2017, 12:29:49 PM »
My only dislike of bolt action is the relative lack of granularity for tanks and some weird inconsistancies on their stats.

Everything is divided into catagories: In FoW terms, FA 0-3ish is Armored car, FA 3-4ish is light tank, FA 5-7 is medium tank, FA 9-12ish is heavy tank and FA 12+ is superheavy.

AT guns are Light (3.7cm, 2lbr, etc), Medium(5cm/l60, 6lbr, & 75mm tank guns for brits/US), Heavy (german 75mm, US 76, 85mm), and superheavy(8.8cm (both long and l/56), Panther's 75/l70, and 17lbr).

This is ok, besides some weirdness(Tiger I can penetrate a JgTiger frontally?) and odd stat choices:(Puma has armor of a light tank, the rest of the 234 series have armored car armor!?) (250/9 was errataed to not be open topped, yet the 222, and 234/1 with same turret have open topped, and only the 222 has the flak rule?!?!), The armored car choice for lists is also a bit odd as a Luchs counts as your one tank/Tankhunter/SP Arty/SP AA choice, but yet you can take a 234/4 as an armored car.
« Last Edit: February 01, 2017, 12:35:26 PM by winterwolf8601 »

bigchris

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Re: Re: A Change in Direction?
« Reply #7 on: February 01, 2017, 01:20:18 PM »
I've looked at BA several times.  My hangup, so far, has been deciding which nationality to play. 
Look! We're not worried about the German army, we've got enough troubles of our own. To the right General Patton, to the left the British Army, to the rear our own goddamn artillery, and besides all that it's raining.

Michael

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Re: Re: A Change in Direction?
« Reply #8 on: February 01, 2017, 07:04:59 PM »
Considering most of your force will be infantry, does it really make much difference? Or are there national rules that make British infantry, for example, play much different from the others?
"A leader leads by example, not by force."

winterwolf8601

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Re: Re: A Change in Direction?
« Reply #9 on: February 01, 2017, 10:56:46 PM »
There are some from what I can tell:

#1 is weapon options which are not universally accessible in the same numbers. and some special units available to various nations

#2 is national special rules:
Germany: German Officers get +1 order die to issue when giving an order to nearby troops; They get essentially a 2+ mission tactics if NCOs die(you get -1 morale if nco is dead), +1 RoF for LMGs/MMGs, PzIVs and big cats impose a -1 to enemy units' orders that aren't to shoot that vehicle.
Brits: Free artillery OP(about 100pt value) and they can still get the normal one allowed, Best of two results on prelim. Bombardments(mission special rule), And one of the following: auto-pass orders to assault, Defenders assaulted get no reaction to assault, roll +1 die per 3 men fighting in assault, roll +1 die per three men shooting, 4+ to lose a pin marker before rolling for order if enemy within 12"
USA: Rifles and BAR get no penalty to hit while moving, many tanks get no penalty to shoot with main gun while moving, Air Observers get to call 2 air attacks instead of 1, no -1 order penalty for units off table as reserves or like to arrive.
USSR: Reroll morale tests if the consequence would be to be destroyed, Free inexperienced rifle unit with any/all options(112pt value), if unit within 6" of commisar fails order roll, you must kill a guy and reroll, Artillery barrages roll 2d6(pick highest)+6 for radius instead on 1d6+6 for area of effect.
Italy: difference in # of units destroyed gives bonus or penalty to all orders, Reroll to defend in missions with an attacker and get bunch of advantages when defending,
Finland: When units get to 50% strength they upgrade quality(Inexperienced-Regulars, Regulars to Vets, Vets- Vets with +1 morale), When given ambush order(overwatch) can reroll morale, when shooting from ambush rifles get a +1 to hit modifier, Ignores -1 order for outflanking troops to arrive
Bulgaria: Can't be outflanked, Get to take one german or italian unit as support that isn't vet and can't be a heavy or superheavy tank.
Hungary: Get to take one german or italian unit as support that isn't vet and can't be a heavy or superheavy tank(as exception can take a tiger I), HQ units get the fanatic special rule
Romania: Get to take one german or italian unit as support that isn't vet and can't be a heavy or superheavy tank, get free AT gun or non-heavy arty at regular in addition to normal allowance of 1 (up to 110pt value).
Japan: Everybody gets Fanatic rule(basically fight to the death), Autopass orders to run/charge nearest enemy, If a unit gets to start game hidden it is also in ambush(overwatch), Political officers allow you to reroll result for any green(untested) units morale level after they take casualties within 6"
France: Greater chance opponent gets to act first on turn 1, Free non heavy arty or AT gun(up to 75pt value), buy 3 inexperienced infantry squads get a 4th for free that is same as cheapest one(theoretically up to 121pt value)
Belgium: Same as France except the inexperienced infantry unit has less options
Dutch:  Same as France except the inexperienced infantry unit has less options
Norway: Greater chance opponent gets to act first on turn 1, Hidden units get to start with Ambush orders, unaffected by difficult terrain on turn 1, no -1 for outflanking troops to show up.
Poland:  Greater chance opponent gets to act first on turn 1, Reroll morale tests if they would result in a unit being destroyed, Officers are Fanatics
Greeks: Same as Norway
Partisans: 3 Hidden bomb markers that probably do nothing when enemies get within 6"(1-3: no effect and goes away, 4,5: nothing yet, 6: counts as a heavy howitzer hit!) Hidden units get to start with Ambush orders, unaffected by difficult terrain on turn 1, no -1 for outflanking troops to show up. Can take a captured tank must be inexperienced biggest available is a panther.

I think this is all the factions
« Last Edit: February 01, 2017, 11:01:17 PM by winterwolf8601 »

Michael

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Re: Re: A Change in Direction?
« Reply #10 on: February 03, 2017, 08:14:42 PM »
Thanks, Phillip, that was quite a comprehensive list of national rules. I'm going with the British because I like their uniforms. As a bonus, they will look good while getting excellent artillery support. :)
"A leader leads by example, not by force."

bigchris

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Re: Re: A Change in Direction?
« Reply #11 on: February 04, 2017, 02:09:07 PM »
I'm stuck between Finnish or USMC.  I'm just learning list building now.

Mike, perhaps the Bolt Action discussion might benefit from having a different space than here?
Look! We're not worried about the German army, we've got enough troubles of our own. To the right General Patton, to the left the British Army, to the rear our own goddamn artillery, and besides all that it's raining.

Michael

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Re: A Change in Direction?
« Reply #12 on: February 04, 2017, 03:35:10 PM »
Good idea, Chris! We are now in a new place.  8)
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JenkkiMike

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Re: A Change in Direction?
« Reply #13 on: March 07, 2017, 11:22:28 AM »
What scale do you guys play Bolt Action in? I know a lot of people prefer 28mm for skirmish but I think since we all have large collections of 15mm WW2 stuff, that 15mm would be in the running. With the Portal selling off their remaining FOW stock at 40% off, I was going to grab a couple blisters of Russians and Germans, base them on pennies and try out some 15mm Bolt Action on the cheap.

bigchris

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Re: A Change in Direction?
« Reply #14 on: March 07, 2017, 10:17:00 PM »
@JenkkiMike;

As we are only starting out, those who are interested are in the process of list building and considering options.  There may be some experimentation using FoW models, but I think those who get into Bolt Action are going to go with the 28mm scale
Look! We're not worried about the German army, we've got enough troubles of our own. To the right General Patton, to the left the British Army, to the rear our own goddamn artillery, and besides all that it's raining.